{"id":1057,"date":"2023-04-02T04:27:57","date_gmt":"2023-04-02T04:27:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.yoganandafortheworld.com\/story\/?p=1057"},"modified":"2023-04-03T19:07:01","modified_gmt":"2023-04-03T19:07:01","slug":"conversations-with-ananda-ch-24-karuna-mcdivitt","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.yoganandafortheworld.com\/story\/conversations-with-ananda-ch-24-karuna-mcdivitt\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversations With Ananda — Ch. 24, Karuna McDivitt"},"content":{"rendered":"

Karuna lived for many years at Ananda Village<\/strong>, where he started a surveying business that developed a large clientele in Nevada County. Karuna passed away in the 1990s.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Tell us about your background.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Karuna, 1994<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Karuna:<\/strong> My dad was a trade union representative in New Zealand. He believed that the world\u2019s weight was carried on the backs of the workers and that business managers took advantage of them. My brother and I grew up believing it was righteous to be a worker, and that to be a boss, or to be in business for yourself was an indication that you were greedy. I grew up with the assumption that I would always be someone else\u2019s employee, because it was the righteous thing to do, and that I would never have a business of my own because it would mean that I\u2019d get sucked into greed.<\/p>\n

When I came to Ananda, I was happy to work in the organic garden. Later, I moved to Ocean Song, a former Ananda colony on the Sonoma Coast, and once again I did manual work. It was a blast, but when winter came there was no work to support us, so I went out looking, and nothing came up, but I saw an ad for a computer draftsman, and I thought I might as well give it a try. I enjoyed it immediately, really loved it, and one thing led to another, and I felt I was being led in the direction of getting my surveyor\u2019s license.<\/p>\n

I started my own business more or less by chance. At first it was real simple, just a friend and I working for another friend on a property near Ananda. But it led to more work, and I always had the feeling that Paramhansa Yogananda was bringing us jobs. It began out of a need to stay employed, but I soon found that I was in business for myself, and that, lo and behold, I had an employee.<\/p>\n

It was a real nice beginning, because it started off in a spiritual way. Every morning, first thing, Jack would say, \u201cLet\u2019s start with a prayer,\u201d and we\u2019d try to remember God throughout the day. Jack would always be calling on Divine Mother to help us in our work, and I learned a lot from him. I had always relied on my own expertise, but hearing Jack say \u201cOh, Divine Mother, show us where this thing is.\u201d Or, \u201cHelp us with this,\u201d or whatever it was, I found myself starting to do the same thing, and I found that it worked.<\/p>\n

I remember how Jack and I were looking for the corner of a property, and we were having a real hard time finding it because there was lots of overgrowth. And then it began to rain, and I badly needed to find that point to finish the survey. I found myself saying \u201cDivine Mother, why rain on me now?! I need this point.\u201d And pretty soon I decided, \u201cIt\u2019s starting to rain real heavy, and I\u2019ll have to leave.\u201d So I got down on my hands and knees to crawl out of the bushes, and there was the corner, right under the bush I\u2019d been standing on. And it showed me that when you call the answer will be there.<\/p>\n

Another time, I was looking for a corner on the Ananda property, and again I couldn\u2019t find it. My ego was getting rocked, because I was using all the techniques I could think of but I just kept coming back to the same place. Someone had done some bulldozer work on that spot, and I formulated the excuse that the corner had obviously been knocked out by the bulldozer, or else I\u2019d be able to find it. But then I thought, \u201cWhoah, this is the wrong attitude,\u201d and I started calling on Divine Mother, \u201cIf it\u2019s here, show me where it is.\u201d I prayed like that for a long time, and I used all my skills and prayer at the same time, but nothing seemed to be happening. So finally I said, \u201cYou\u2019re my last chance. It\u2019s either not here or You better show it to me.\u201d I started to walk away, and I tripped right over it! The pipe had been bent over by the bulldozer, but it was still in the ground.<\/p>\n

I found it was real easy to work with high standards when I was with devotees. Working with Jack, I was able to keep my attitude high, but I guess there wasn\u2019t enough of a test in that, because pretty soon there wasn\u2019t enough work, and I started working for an engineering firm in town; but I found it very difficult to keep the same centeredness, working in a place where there was an indifferent vibration.<\/p>\n

The other employees picked up on the fact that I lived at Ananda and meditated, and that I was sticking to higher principles, and in one sense they respected it, but they would joke about it, and I couldn\u2019t quite figure out what my role was, working there. Then things started to fall apart for the company, and because I had become friends with the people, I had a choice of either walking away and taking care of myself, or picking up the responsibility, because the head of the business was sitting back and watching his business implode.<\/p>\n

I began asking Divine Mother for work, and She created a business for me. Work started coming in at a surprising rate, to the point where the five people who\u2019d worked for this man were working for me. We set it up so that if work came in for our former boss we would get it done, but otherwise we would do my work. I had avoided leadership, and it seemed that Divine Mother was bringing it through the back door to help me learn to take responsibility.<\/p>\n

I would tell the crew that when they were working with me I wanted them to do high\u2011quality work and relate well with the clients, and not be joking around but put their energy into doing a good job. And at that point, we all seemed to be pulling together well.<\/p>\n

I told my brother, \u201cIsn\u2019t it interesting, how Dad was so strong against businessmen, and you and I are running our own businesses?\u201d He said, \u201cYeah, it is, but what\u2019s really neat is how we learned the lessons Dad talked about, how employers should treat their employees and clients, and we\u2019re building our businesses that way.\u201d<\/p>\n

Both of our businesses are going really well, because our employees and clients feel our genuine concern. Many of my clients have become good friends because I relate to them as people. They feel it and their defenses drop, and we can start to work cooperatively.<\/p>\n

With the one person now who might be considered an employee, we\u2019re actually much more like partners. I\u2019m finding that it\u2019s an incredible way to do business, because when you work as a team, in cooperation, you can achieve so much more for everyone than if you\u2019re working at odds, with each person vying to have their own way. And in that way business, far from being a drag, has been a real joy, and a stepping\u2011stone to taking responsibility and leadership. It\u2019s been an interesting lesson for my spiritual life.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting how many Ananda ministers are business people. It almost seems like Paramhansa Yogananda wanted to establish that example. His most highly advanced woman disciple, Sister Gyanamata, said, \u201cYour religion is tested in the cold light of day.\u201d<\/p>\n

Karuna:<\/strong> It\u2019s very clear to me that I\u2019m here by Yogananda\u2019s grace, and not through my own design. At first I had no intention whatever of starting a business, and later I didn\u2019t realize I was \u201cin business\u201d until I was heavily involved, and then I suddenly became aware \u201cI\u2019m running a business.\u201d<\/p>\n

I think it\u2019s a twofold thing. One, if you bring spiritual energy to a business, you can have a high\u2011energy business where people can learn and grow. I\u2019m sure, too, that the lessons we learn in business help our ministry. Whenever I give a Sunday service, I\u2019m able to share from the perspective of the nitty\u2011gritty situations that other people go through in their work, day in and day out.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s a responsibility to ensure that the employees are well covered. When I set up the business with my partner, George, I figured, hey, I\u2019m the licensed land surveyor and he\u2019s semi\u2011skilled, so I should be getting the vast proportion of the earnings and he should be getting his appropriate share. \u201cAppropriate,\u201d meaning what other people were being paid for similar work. But as we got into it and I saw the energy he was putting out, I realized that I shouldn\u2019t be looking only at how it\u2019s done elsewhere, I should look at the relationship between George and me: What kind of energy is he putting out, and what does that deserve? So I went to him and said, \u201cI don\u2019t think I\u2019m paying you enough. I think we ought to change the relationship, and you ought to have a lot more of this. I feel you\u2019re putting out that kind of energy.\u201d He was really thrilled, because he hadn\u2019t been putting out that energy in the expectation of getting more money.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s been an incredible boost to the business. George is out there looking and talking and helping to generate energy because he stands to gain more, and because he feels that sense of cooperation and support.<\/p>\n

Part of my nature was to do as little as necessary and just slide by. I\u2019d go along rather than create energy or boost and support it. And in my spiritual life that same factor was present.<\/p>\n

When I came to Ananda, I enjoyed the vibrations and the meditation practices, and I felt very connected to Paramhansa Yogananda, but I wasn\u2019t putting out energy to meet my spiritual potential. I was drifting and enjoying the vibration and the love, and doing the minimum amount necessary to feel okay about being here. And I found that two things helped me get out of that rut. In both cases, I was being asked to give more energy.<\/p>\n

I got a call from Vidura, the Ananda Village manager. He said, \u201cWe wonder if you would like to go up to the seclusion retreat and run the postulant program.\u201d I was really surprised, because Vidura knew me well, and I used to joke about the laid\u2011back Australian attitude. But of course, we did want to serve, and we were thrilled about starting a whole different life. So we went up there, and I found I wasn\u2019t able to drift, because people expected direction from me and the facility was falling to pieces, so I was having to work full\u2011time\u2011plus. The propane for the retreat would run out in the middle of the night, and people would get sick, or people\u2019s places would need upgrading, etc.<\/p>\n

We were going constantly, and it was a real interesting experience, because I discovered that there was more joy in putting out the extra energy than in just drifting. I found that the more energy I put out in the physical world, the more energy I had for meditation. I had more concentration, I had more determination, I had more energy. Also, we were in the limelight, because new people would be coming, and they would look to us for an example. So I found myself working hard through necessity, and meditating longer and deeper and harder because people were watching \u2013 you know, they were looking at us and wondering \u201cHow do they<\/em> do the spiritual path?\u201d<\/p>\n

Later, I found the same trend happening in business, where if I wanted to succeed I was going to have to put out a lot of energy and concentration, and when I did succeed I felt better about myself. So my self\u2011esteem was up, my energy was up, and I was able to meditate longer and deeper, and I had a desire to do so.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Can you talk about your relationship with your partner.<\/p>\n

Karuna:<\/strong> George had worked in surveying for a long time, starting at seventeen, and now he\u2019s almost fifty. He had a lot more ability than I suspected when I first met him, and he really appreciated honesty, integrity, and straightforwardness.<\/p>\n

One day, after the company in town had begun to fall apart, I went to George and asked him if he could work with me, and he jumped at the opportunity, and on the way to the job he asked what the project was. A lot of guys would just wait for me to tell them what to do, but he asked about the scope of it.<\/p>\n

When we got there, I started to set up the equipment, and the first thing I noticed was that George was already cutting brush in the direction we needed to go. I thought, \u201cWhoah, this is either a really great act, or this guy is hot.\u201d And I discovered that he was hot. He had started working as a chain man when he was seventeen, and he really had the abilities. Later I realized that he was really there for me, and that he would do the work, so he wasn\u2019t just another drone taking orders, he was there as an individual, ready to do what was asked and to provide more than was necessary.<\/p>\n

After our first client, George said, \u201cOh, I didn\u2019t know we were working for a friend of yours.\u201d<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Karuna at a community workday, Ananda Village.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

I said, \u201cWell, this guy\u2019s not really a friend, but on the other hand he is.\u201d I said, \u201cBasically I just consider everybody I meet a friend.\u201d He said, \u201cYou were calling him by his first name, and you guys seemed to be real friendly.\u201d I said, \u201cWe had a meeting prior to this, and we developed a friendship. That\u2019s the approach I like to take.\u201d<\/p>\n

He noticed also that I tended to do more than was necessary. I said, \u201cThat\u2019s another attitude I have, that if we provide a good service at a really good price, word of mouth will spread about the business and we\u2019ll be busy when all the people who try to rip off their clients are falling by the wayside.\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cWell, this is going to be interesting for me, because I\u2019m used to bidding everything really high.\u201d<\/p>\n

We started to bid together, and initially George would always come in higher than I would. We would discuss it, and in the end we\u2019d usually go for something in between. Finally, we saw that if we worked really hard and fast as a team, we could achieve those lower estimates. So we began to do that, and the business grew to the point where we could barely keep up. George has a very warm nature, and he began to use that trait for the client\u2019s benefit.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> You\u2019ve mentioned working with integrity.<\/p>\n

Karuna:<\/strong> Yes, I remember a time when we were working for a client who was a very fine man. Craig appreciated that he could tell me what to do and he could leave it in my hands because the job would get done and the price would be reasonable. And once he\u2019d seen it happen over and over he started telling people, \u201cIf you want someone you can trust, hire Cliff McDivitt.\u201d<\/p>\n

George and I would talk about it, and we agreed that doing it the right way left us in a space where we felt confident and comfortable, whereas sliding by leaves you wondering, \u201cIs this gonna come back and bite us?\u201d<\/p>\n

Lots of service businesses are struggling, and it\u2019s been interesting to see how well we\u2019ve done. Astoundingly well, and with no advertising. It\u2019s a testimony to the spiritual energy in the business. When a client feels that magnetism, they don\u2019t want to be searching around for somebody else, even if there\u2019s a lower price. They want to have the person they feel a connection with. They won\u2019t describe it as a heart connection or a spiritual connection, but they\u2019ll describe it as a sense of trust and respect.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s a real heart connection in the way we\u2019re doing things. People get so hardened in business. They feel they have to keep up a face, and when they don\u2019t have to, it\u2019s interesting to see the camaraderie and the sense of ease that develops.<\/p>\n

George feels it, too. I remember one day he had just finished telling an off-color joke to a client, and he jumped in the car and said something about it as we started to drive off, and Yogananda\u2019s picture popped out of the window where it\u2019s sort of wedged in, and George said, \u201cAll right! All right, already! I won\u2019t do it again!\u201d Like it was a joke, but a little bit like it was actually starting to rub off.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> How do the relationships with your clients and employees grow?<\/p>\n

Karuna:<\/strong> It\u2019s an ongoing process. Every day when we go out to work or to strike a deal, or whatever it might be, it\u2019s a dance. The pull toward making lots of money is always strong. Other businesses do get by, and there\u2019s a tendency to say \u201cWell, gosh, maybe I\u2019m being too persnickety.\u201d But every time I do that, my mind goes back to my yoga training, where we\u2019re taught to do it correctly, and I think of all the mentors I\u2019ve had that I respected and who showed me how to do it correctly.<\/p>\n

And then I think of the people who are sliding by, and what they\u2019re like, and the contrast is extraordinary. Those guys don\u2019t have the same sense of integrity about them. They have a shifty feel to them. So that\u2019s what I have to do, just keep reminding myself each time that test comes up, \u201cWho do I want to be?\u201d \u201cHow do I want to be seen?\u201d And the answer\u2019s pretty simple.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Karuna lived for many years at Ananda Village, where he started a surveying business that developed a large clientele in Nevada County. Karuna passed away in the 1990s. Q: Tell us about your background. Karuna: My dad was a trade union representative in New Zealand. He believed that the world\u2019s weight was carried on the … Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1057","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nConversations With Ananda — Ch. 24, Karuna McDivitt - Swami Kriyananda: Lightbearer<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A disciple of Paramhansa Yogananda ran a successful surveying business by following spiritual principles.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.yoganandafortheworld.com\/story\/conversations-with-ananda-ch-24-karuna-mcdivitt\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" 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