{"id":1050,"date":"2023-03-18T16:08:58","date_gmt":"2023-03-18T16:08:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.yoganandafortheworld.com\/story\/?p=1050"},"modified":"2023-03-18T16:19:36","modified_gmt":"2023-03-18T16:19:36","slug":"conversations-with-ananda-ch-23-nayaswami-nivritti","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.yoganandafortheworld.com\/story\/conversations-with-ananda-ch-23-nayaswami-nivritti\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversations With Ananda — Ch. 23, Nayaswami Nivritti"},"content":{"rendered":"

At the time of our conversation,<\/strong> Nivritti managed Crystal Clarity Publishers, the company that publishes Swami Kriyananda\u2019s books and recordings. She later moved to Seattle, where she co-managed East West Bookshop, a metaphysical bookstore that she and two other women started in the mid\u20111980s.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> How did your interest in business begin?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Nivritti in 2009. Click image to enlarge.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> I can\u2019t say that I have a lot of interest in business. I was teaching fifth and sixth grades, and before that I was in environmental education, and then I did personnel administration for a big school district. So I was never particularly interested in business, but I was in the Seattle Ananda meditation group, and after a couple of years I felt that I wanted to do more than just attend a few classes and meditations. I really wanted to become totally involved, because every time I would go to work, I\u2019d say a little prayer at the beginning of the day, but then I\u2019d forget God all day, so God wouldn\u2019t be part of my life. And yet it was nine hours a day of work, and I got so frustrated \u2013 I kept praying, \u201cI really want to make this my life. I don\u2019t want to make it just \u2018after work.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

I had a family at the time, and it didn\u2019t feel right to move to Ananda. Also, there was nothing pulling me to go there, so I knew it wasn\u2019t time to leave my former life behind.<\/p>\n

In the Seattle Ananda group, the idea was growing that it would be nice to have a bookstore. The Ananda East West Bookshop was going strong in Menlo Park near San Francisco, so there was a thought that it would be nice to have a bookstore in Seattle. And then Bob Rinzler, who ran a nature book publishing company at Ananda Village, Dawn Publications, came and talked to a bunch of us about what it would mean to have our own\u00a0business. He had put together some figures for what it would cost, and we were talking afterward and saying \u201cWouldn\u2019t this be great?\u201d<\/p>\n

We thought that Ananda would send us someone, and that they would fund it and we would just help out. And when we realized that it wasn\u2019t the case, we were so disappointed. I remember driving home that night \u2013 this was the first spiritual experience I\u2019d ever had. I was so upset, and I kept saying, \u201cGod, you know, I\u2019ve got this feeling that I just have<\/em> to do more!\u201d And, \u201cWhat can I do?\u201d I was so frustrated, I couldn\u2019t stand doing what I was doing any longer. It wasn\u2019t that I wanted to go out and find something else to do in the world, I wanted to be immersed in the spiritual teachings.<\/p>\n

So I was driving, and all of a sudden I got this sense \u2013 this sense came into every cell of my body, and it was saying, \u201cBe patient. It\u2019s not quite time. You\u2019ll know when the time is right. I\u2019ll let you know.\u201d And as this sense of joy and relief came over me, tears of joy came, and as I was driving I thought, \u201cWhat is this? What is this sense that happened all of a sudden?\u201d I felt such joy and release. And I said, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s gonna happen!\u201d<\/p>\n

I went back to work for the remainder of the fall, and it was with a feeling of waiting. I thought, \u201cI know that when the time is right I\u2019m going to be told. I\u2019m going to know when it\u2019s right to do something.\u201d So I was able to go back to work feeling much lighter, and about five or six months later the guidance came again.<\/p>\n

I was taking a class at the Ananda center, and it wasn\u2019t that I particularly wanted to go, but I just wanted to support the group, so I went, and I very clearly remember the details\u00a0of the class, because another wave came over me. I was sitting there, and the teacher was doing an exercise where you look at your life and goals, and what fits in, how much time you\u2019re spending, all of that. So I was doing this, and of course I knew that what I was doing wasn\u2019t working for me. But as I was writing it down, the next wave came over me, and it was telling me, \u201cOkay, now you can leave your job. Now you can resign. It\u2019s okay. Now\u2019s the time. You can move forward.\u201d<\/p>\n

It wasn\u2019t an intellectual thought. These things are so deep, it\u2019s like every cell of your body knows, and for me to resign my job was a big deal. It was a high\u2011paying job, and it wasn\u2019t a job that I could turn around and get again anytime\u00a0I wanted. It was a really good job, and it had taken me a couple of years to create it. So it was a very big deal to lose it, and to lose the income in particular, because the money was needed. But I just felt sure I had to do this.<\/p>\n

So the very next day I walked in and I told my boss, \u201cI\u2019m going to have to leave.\u201d And because of the type of work I was doing, they had to conduct a big search\u00a0for a replacement, so I gave them three months\u2019 notice, although it turned out to be four months before I could actually leave.<\/p>\n

During that time, I had no idea what I was going to be doing next. I was wondering, \u201cWhat does this mean?\u201d I knew I wasn\u2019t going to be finding another job. And then the answer came in meditation. A month or two later, I was meditating really deeply, and somewhere in my mind I was questioning, \u201cWhat\u2019s next? What am I doing?\u201d And then it came, and it was \u201cEast West,\u201d and it felt so right! It was like \u201cYes, of course. Why not?\u201d But, even then, all of the doubts came flooding in: \u201cI can\u2019t do it! I have no experience. I don\u2019t have any money.\u201d All of the doubts that come up when you want to do something you think you can\u2019t do. But I felt so strongly that it was right, and I said, \u201cI\u2019m going to start taking steps.\u201d<\/p>\n

And that\u2019s what I began to do. At one point I went down to Menlo Park and visited East West Bookshop, and I went to Ananda Village and talked to people. I had a little money of my own to put into the store, although it wasn\u2019t enough, but I started getting information and talking to people, and putting out energy, because I had a date for when we wanted to open the store.<\/p>\n

I remember a time when I was feeling so discouraged. I was feeling, \u201cHow can I do this?! I don\u2019t know anything! I don\u2019t know anything about business or money or starting something big and new.\u201d<\/p>\n

It was scary, and I think the biggest thing that kept entering my mind was that if it should fail, how would I be able to look my gurubhais and friends\u00a0in the face? Here I am, putting out this big energy, and I was really afraid that it was all just a big hype and that it wasn\u2019t going to happen.<\/p>\n

So I had this terrible fear that I couldn\u2019t do it. And I remember, again, how the next wave came over me. I don\u2019t remember when it was, but it was before I knew for sure that we were going to get the money. It was a presence, an awareness of God that told me, \u201cI will give you what you need in order to do this.\u201d I felt it very clearly. \u201cI will give you what you need to do this.\u201d And, \u201cIt\u2019s Me doing this.\u201d And I felt so relieved!<\/p>\n

Afterwards, it was funny, because I felt, \u201cWell, gee, if it fails, it\u2019s because God wants it to fail.\u201d So there was a big feeling of relief. But then the ego kicked in and said, \u201cWell! But if it succeeds, you won\u2019t get to acknowledge that you made it a success, because you have to acknowledge that God made it a success.\u201d<\/p>\n

I remember that balance \u2013 the feeling that, oh, I kinda would like to feel like I did it! [Laughs.] But it was very clear that if I wasn\u2019t going to accept the responsibility for the failure, I wasn\u2019t going to be able to feel prideful about the success. So I acknowledged that, and to this day I realize that it wasn\u2019t me who did it, it was God working, not just through me but the team that He put together, because two other people joined me.<\/p>\n

So I quit my administrator\u2019s job, and I played a game in my head. I said, \u201cWell, God, just in case I can\u2019t get the money, I\u2019m going to keep my teacher\u2019s contract so I\u2019ll have something to fall back on when school starts in the fall.\u201d<\/p>\n

I was going to do everything I could to get the bookstore off the ground, but if nothing happened by September, and if we couldn\u2019t get the money, I wanted to be able to go back to teaching. So I kept the teaching contract, but I had to let them know by mid\u2011August if I would be teaching.<\/p>\n

I set myself a deadline of August 15th<\/sup>, and iIf I didn\u2019t have the money by then I would go back to teaching. And on August 14th<\/sup> we got a loan for $50,000 that we needed to make it happen. So I gave up the teaching contract and I was on my own.<\/p>\n

There were lots of hurdles that prevented the store from opening when I wanted it to. We had problems with the building, for example, but we kept taking steps, and the amazing thing is that even though I didn\u2019t know a thing, the resources kept popping up just as we needed them.<\/p>\n

My weakest areas were bookkeeping and computer work, and a woman came along and signed on to do them, because she felt it was something she had to do, just as I had felt. Then another woman came and took over the design of the store, and we could see that God had put us together with these skills that blended perfectly. It was amazing how each of us knew an area that was needed to create this.<\/p>\n

It was an incredible amount of work, but that was okay. The whole time I remember feeling such grace, and that I was blessed to be able to do this. I was doing God\u2019s work, and even though it was sometimes hard and discouraging, it didn\u2019t matter, because it felt like God\u2019s work.<\/p>\n

When I did my budget projections, they were almost a hundred-percent\u00a0accurate, even though I was really just guessing. It was like an intuition, guessing how our sales would go, so that we would know how much money we could spend. We were living on a shoestring; without anyone feeding us, and if it went under we didn\u2019t have any way of getting more money unless God would provide.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> The conventional wisdom is that when you start a business, you\u2019d better have enough backup money to carry you through the first year.<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t. All we had was $70,000 in cash, and a little more from my savings which I used to pay my expenses. So we had about $100,000, but I figured out how to allocate it so that even if we didn\u2019t make money for a while, we could keep going. Because it\u2019s not as if I knew how to do this. Rather, it seemed to be an intuitive process all along the way.<\/p>\n

When Swami asked me to move down to Ananda Village, and I went to work at Crystal Clarity, he introduced me to a group of people, and he said, \u201cCathy\u2019s a very strong devotee and follower of Master.\u201d Which I thought was so special. And then he said, \u201cShe also has a very intuitive business sense.\u201d<\/p>\n

Those were the only things he said, and it\u2019s not like I have any great business background or lots of experience. But that\u2019s been my\u00a0feeling, that God gave me an intuitive sense, and an ability to work with what\u2019s real, and to know how to give it a direction and focus. It wasn\u2019t anything that I\u2019d gotten in school, or that I\u2019d taught myself.<\/p>\n

Seattle has always had lots of metaphysical bookstores, but just as we were getting started, all the other stores began closing. In the area where we decided to start East West, two other metaphysical bookstores closed for lack of business, and everyone was telling us, \u201cYou\u2019re crazy, everything\u2019s closing. How can you think you\u2019ll do better?\u201d But it was God\u2019s will.<\/p>\n

The bookstore has been such a channel for God. It\u2019s been a great financial support for the church, but it has also brought many people on the spiritual path. I don\u2019t know how many times people would come in, and we\u2019d talk to them, and they\u2019d say, \u201cYou know, I come here at noon because this is my spiritual fix. This is church.\u201d [Laughs.] We heard that all the time.<\/p>\n

It also helped us to work together. It helped us become strong devotees. People would come and visit from Ananda Village, and they\u2019d remark that the group we had was very unusual, because of our commitment and advancement, and it was because we were totally immersed in the path. We worked together, we did meditations and prayers together, and when we finally got to live together\u00a0in a spiritual community, we had everything.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Was it a wrench to leave Seattle and move to Ananda Village?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> Yes, it was very hard to move, but I knew it was time to leave. I wrote to Swami and said, \u201cI\u2019m feeling like I\u2019m getting pushed out.\u201d Not that anyone was pushing, because I loved working with the people, and we had all these ideas for what we\u2019d be doing in the months and years ahead, but I could feel it was time.<\/p>\n

It wasn\u2019t that the energy was stale, I just knew I had to leave, and there was an awareness that I needed to make room for other people to come and do what they needed to do. So I wrote to Swami and said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to do something else. I have to leave here.\u201d<\/p>\n

I was thinking that maybe I would move to the East Coast, because it was something I\u2019d always wanted to do. It\u2019s where my family lived, and I thought I could help start an Ananda center, and maybe help start another bookstore. But Swami said, \u201cNo, it\u2019s not time for that. Come here. You really need to be here.\u201d<\/p>\n

Publishing is such an incredibly complex business. It\u2019s not really a business, in the sense that there are so many layers that aren\u2019t business, and there\u2019s so much to learn. I felt totally overwhelmed, like I couldn\u2019t do it, but I knew God wanted me to, so I just did what I could.<\/p>\n

I basically let people do what they<\/em> could do, and I think that\u2019s something that had never really happened; yet it was so obvious. We\u00a0have so many talented people, and I let them do what they feel they can do. I was feeling that I\u2019m not a leader, I\u2019m just a contributing member, I\u2019m a hard worker and I\u2019m a contributor in a team kind of way.<\/p>\n

I was with Swami\u00a0once, and I was thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t feel like a leader, I never have.\u201d [Laughs.] I didn\u2019t say it, but it had been on my mind, and he turned to me and said, \u201cYou know, everyone thinks I\u2019ve been this great leader at Ananda. But, you know, I haven\u2019t done anything. All I\u2019ve done is allow people to do what they need to do, and allow people\u2019s strengths to come out.\u201d He said, \u201cThat\u2019s all you need to do.\u201d Even though I hadn\u2019t asked, he understood that this was really bothering me. So that\u2019s what I try to do.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> What\u2019s the environment like at Crystal Clarity?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> We seem to get along well. It\u2019s very friendly. Sometimes too friendly, \u201cOkay, get to work!\u201d [Laughs.] But, yes, I think we\u2019re working really well. Not only with each other but with the other departments.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> A trick question. Have you ever read The Art of Supportive Leadership<\/em> by Swami Kriyananda?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> [Laughs.] Gee, who<\/em> wrote that book? Actually, that book is my bible. Yes, The Art of Supportive Leadership<\/em> is really about what spiritual businesses are doing, I think, more and more. It\u2019s such a temptation to want to get in there and do it all by yourself, and you do have to plan and coordinate, but it\u2019s such a different energy when you\u2019re trying to feel \u201cwhat\u2019s trying to happen,\u201d and you\u2019re getting other people to do what they do best. So it\u2019s a balance.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Operating from a spiritual base, is there a difference in how you plan your daily work, and in how you forecast what you\u2019ll be doing next week?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> The main thing I\u2019m aware of is the need for flexibility. You plan, but then you go with the flow, which means you could change on a dime. You can be going one way a hundred percent, but then something else becomes a higher priority and you turn that way.<\/p>\n

At Crystal Clarity, there are things that Swami decides. Of course, he\u2019s in charge, even though he doesn\u2019t get into the particulars, but he decides the direction. His creativity decides the flow, and suddenly you\u2019re working with either the books or the music, because that\u2019s his flow in the moment, even though you may question if it\u2019s making any money \u2013 because I am responsible for the bottom line, even though I\u2019m not responsible for everything else. [Laughs.] But it\u2019s amazing. You question it because it doesn\u2019t seem right logically, but you put out the energy to go with his flow and you see what happens. Obviously he\u2019s not infallible, and he\u2019s not always right. I mean, everyone knows that. But he does have an intuition that\u2019s a lot more developed than probably anyone else\u2019s here, so we do our best to follow the flow.<\/p>\n

Approaching it logically, it would drive someone who\u2019s a \u201creal business person\u201d absolutely bananas. I don\u2019t see how they could do it, because they wouldn\u2019t have any control. They\u2019d be thinking \u201cIt has to go this way, because this is the logical, sensible thing to do,\u201d and it would drive them nuts, because at Crystal Clarity you can\u2019t do it that way. You have to be willing to say, \u201cOkay, well, that isn\u2019t the way it\u2019s happening, so we\u2019ll go this other way.\u201d<\/p>\n

Right now, he\u2019s come up with a new idea\u00a0for a book. I didn\u2019t know he was going to be writing a book, and it wasn\u2019t in the plans \u2013 and where are we going to get the money? I don\u2019t know. We can\u2019t do all the other projects, the reprints we\u2019ve got lined up and so forth. So I just go along day by day. There\u2019s always a skeleton plan, but it\u2019s not filled in very well.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Do you find that your spiritual practices help you be able to stop on a dime and change directions?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> I think one of the biggest things for me is just letting go. It\u2019s constantly letting go of what my ego says is right. Letting go of the way I want to do something. Letting go of what I think might be most important for me, and tuning into what\u2019s trying to happen in the moment, which isn\u2019t necessarily any of those things. I think that\u2019s the biggest thing, just letting go all the time.<\/p>\n

Sometimes you feel like you don\u2019t have anything to offer, or you don\u2019t have anything at all that\u2019s your own, because you\u2019re always letting go and allowing everything else to happen. And, for me, it\u2019s basically trying to steer everything else and then getting out of the way so it can happen.<\/p>\n

I think my spiritual practice helps me to let that happen. Otherwise, I think there would be a greater resistance, and a desire to stand up and fight for what you think is right, the way you think it should be, instead of stepping back and trying to listen and hear. It doesn\u2019t mean that I do things I feel are wrong, but I\u2019ve always felt that listening to people is important. You always have to take others\u2019 realities into account.<\/p>\n

This is a digression, but one of the biggest differences I noticed when I was managing the personnel office, before I came on this path, was that people\u2019s private lives didn\u2019t matter, and that they were expected to leave that part of their lives at home. At work you were all the same and you worked together that way, but at Ananda it\u2019s not just about working with people for the sake of the business. You\u2019re working with people where they are, and their personal lives and their health \u2013 those things always come into play. So it\u2019s a more holistic way of working with people; not that I\u2019m counseling them all the time, but we\u2019re aware of what\u2019s going on with people.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Is there a sense of being at work with brothers and sisters?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> Yes, more so than ever. You really get to know people, and you get to care. I think that\u2019s the other thing, because people are sharing what\u2019s going on with their feelings and emotions, and if it\u2019s affecting their work you need to know about it. Some people can\u2019t always come in at the same time every day, for example, because everyone\u2019s rhythms are different, and we\u2019re trying to honor that.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Is there a point past which you should not honor it?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> Yes, there is a point where something is obviously dysfunctional, and then we do make changes. Except for Balarama Betts, who\u2019s been here for nine years, the staff has completely changed in the last year alone. So there\u2019s a whole new staff, and the business is just a tool to help us grow. At Ananda that\u2019s what the theory says, and it becomes increasingly clear that it really is what\u2019s happening.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> How about women\u2019s energies? Do you think they help run a business? Or do they get in the way? Or are they a factor at all? Do you ever think about that?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Nivritti and Susan McGinnis in 2009.
<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> It was three women who started East West in Seattle. Betsy and I were full time and Susan was half time, and as we started adding staff we kept adding women, so when I left we had nine full\u2011time women and two part\u2011time women, and for almost eight years I worked with an all\u2011women staff, and just as I was leaving we brought in one man. But it was great. I loved it \u2013 we all did.<\/p>\n

We would laugh about it, but it was great, because it was a real focused energy. It was more emotional, I think for sure, and when we started to get a couple of men on staff, which happened in the last year I was there, it changed the energy. It was a little less emotional. But it was really special when we were all women, and I liked it. It was very productive. But it depended on the individuals, and some of the last people who joined us began to pull us off center \u2013 you could feel that we needed to balance our energy, that it was becoming too emotional. But I like having women to work with. When I started at Crystal Clarity, it was all men and me, and I thought, \u201cI don\u2019t like this as much.\u201d But we\u2019ve balanced it, and now it\u2019s about half and half, and it works fine, so I don\u2019t really make a big distinction that way.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> Devi (co\u2011spiritual director of Ananda worldwide) said that over the years she\u2019s been at Ananda, she\u2019s seen that men operate more by rules \u2013 \u201cThis is how it\u2019s done \u2013 this is how we\u2019ve always done it.\u201d Whereas women will look at the individual needs in the situation, and they\u2019ll come up with a creative solution to meet those needs.<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> That\u2019s probably true. Women listen better. I find that in working with men, it\u2019s more often \u201cWell, I want to do it my way!\u201d [Laughs.] Women are more apt to listen and say \u201cWell, you know, okay.\u201d They\u2019re more willing to bend with the flow. But there needs to be a balance, and I think having a mixed staff is best, because having men involved keeps the women on their toes a little more. I think it helps them not go sliding into a comfortable routine, because that\u2019s a tendency if you aren\u2019t being challenged. I think personally there might not be as much desire, because the competitiveness isn\u2019t there as much. But I liked the retail business, and I would happily go and do another bookstore, if that\u2019s what I\u2019m supposed to do.<\/p>\n

Q:<\/strong> What did you like about it?<\/p>\n

Nivritti:<\/strong> It\u2019s much more predictable than what I\u2019m experiencing here. I like\u00a0this, too, but I also liked the interaction with so many people. You could see how people were being helped by the books and classes \u2013 people would come up and be so thankful for a class they\u2019d taken. But here you don\u2019t get to see the customers. We have some contact over the phone, but it\u2019s so much less than I\u2019m used to. I really felt like I was helping people at the bookstore, and I\u2019m sure I am here, too, but more indirectly, and we don\u2019t get feedback. Again, I\u2019m not really attached to it. I came here just to serve, and this is where I was drawn, and I\u2019ll happily move on.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

At the time of our conversation, Nivritti managed Crystal Clarity Publishers, the company that publishes Swami Kriyananda\u2019s books and recordings. She later moved to Seattle, where she co-managed East West Bookshop, a metaphysical bookstore that she and two other women started in the mid\u20111980s. Q: How did your interest in business begin? Nivritti: I can\u2019t … Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1050","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nConversations With Ananda — Ch. 23, Nayaswami Nivritti - Swami Kriyananda: Lightbearer<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A disciple of Paramhansa Yogananda tells how three women started a successful spiritual bookstore.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.yoganandafortheworld.com\/story\/conversations-with-ananda-ch-23-nayaswami-nivritti\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" 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